Shoeing Stock Woes

[Clydelover]

Shoeing Stock Woes.

I've been working with Aleah on picking up her feet for some time. She will pick up all four for me to pick out, but has little patience for any trim work. We've managed it, but it's always a struggle.

Last August, while working on one of her rear feet, she suddenly took the foot away from me which caused my back to tweak... I was sore for several days. I thought there has to be some way to restrain her to keep that from happening.

I remembered the Shoeing Stock over at the County park, Buckley's Homestead. I asked the head ranger if I could borrow it and was given the ok to take it home. They wanted me to learn to use it, as they had it 5 years and never had used it once, and when brought back, teach them how to use it and break their horses into its use.

I scoured the net looking for info on it. Interestingly, there is A LOT of info on how to build the things, but very little on how to actually use them. I finally wrote to a few folk and got some pics on how to tie down the horses feet, but that was about it for info.

Took me awhile to get Aleah used to it. Finally got her entering it ( with the good ol feed bucket, what else? ) and accepting the restraints... two chains on her halter, two butt chains to keep 'em from backing out, two chains over the top of the back to prevent rearing up, two chains under the belly to prevent laying down. One of these belly chains is situated near the front legs, the other the rear. BTW, all these chains are inside rubber hose for protection.

But I could never get her to pick up her feet while in the thing. Out of it, she picks them up with only some minor hesitation. Inside... no way. So I gave up for awhile.

But I was determined to get her used to it... Yesterday, I finally succeeded in getting her to pick up one front foot and was able to strap it down to the foot rest... FINALLY. That's when the wreck began, and that's when I found out the hard way that the Amish made shoeing stocks aren't designed very well.

She started struggling, I couldn't settle her down. I released the foot, but that didn't help. She could not rear up, could not lay down, could not back out, or go forward. But in her struggling, her rear feet slid forward in her attempt to go backwards.... in a flash her rear feet had slid up so far, that they slipped off the edges of the thing and hit the ground, causing her rump to slide under the butt chains and sit down... then her front feet slid forward and out the front to the ground, now her head was caught up in the air because of the front cross board... she was cast... stuck, could not move and in trouble.

I ran over to my toolbox and came back with a pair of pliers to remove the bolts... couldn't get a grip and she was still struggling... got a crowbar and broke the oak board away from the stock. This allowed her head to drop down finally and I was able to release the halter chains and take her halter off. Then I had to use a hammer to release the "dogs" holding all the chains. But even with this, she was in such a bad position, that she couldn't get up. While I stood there fretting, trying to figure out what to do, she started struggling again and managed to wiggle out of the thing, nearly toppling it over in the process.

Then she stood up and I was shaking like a leaf I was so upset... didn't know if she was hurt or not... luckily, after checking her all over and walking her around, she seemed fine.

So I guess it's back to struggling like we've always done... the usual way... hopefully she'll simply get better about allowing her feet to be held up for longer and longer periods till it's no big deal anymore... but the shoeing stock... damn'd thing.. useless piece of Cr*p. I'll repair it and take it back and tell 'em it's useless as far as I'm concerned... either or... will figure out a way to improve it so as to absolutely prevent ANY possibility of a horse becoming cast in it.

I'm thinking it would take a large sling of some type.. maybe with holes for all four legs to go thru. And four hand cranked winches to actually support her whole weight so there would be no possible way for her to lose her balance and fall down.... then again... I think I'll simply take it back and forget the whole thing = (

CL

[justbcos]

YIKES!!! That sounds like a REALLY scary situation. But I think I heard of something several years ago that was promoted as something farriers would use on super difficult horses, it is basically a tilt table - you lead the horse up next to the slab (in vertical position), strap the horse to it, and then tilt the table so that the horse is horizontal. I can't remember when you tie the horses feet, but obviously you'd have to or the horse would thrash around and knock you in the head...

I think the best bet is patient training...

[Treasure Walk]

Ouch!! That must have been so nerve wracking trying to get her out of that contraption!! Glad everything turned out ok.
How old is Aleah?
I have a coming 3 y.o. half draft and have had some trouble with her snatching her foot back too. I just keep working at it, and she is getting better. Sometimes I cheat and let her eat some hay while I am working with her feet. You know how food motivated those Draftys are. :p

[OregonLadyGirl]

Oh my, how scary. Glad everyone is ok.
I had a 17 year old paint mare come in from the range that had never had her feet messed with at all. I used a soft cotton rope and looped it around her foot and kept picking it up for longer and longer and getting closer and closer. Until voila! All I had to do was say "foot" and she was pick it up and let me do whatever for however long.
Patience and repition, you'll get it.

[DreamRider]

I agree with OregonLady, use a soft cotton rope and attach it around the leg you want to pick up. I held the rope in my hand up to the shoulder so that the foot was bent equal to the knee. Keep it there for a while, let it down, pick it up and leave it there for a while. Safe best is not to attach it to any thing.

My farrier looped the rope through the halter on the Icelantic/arab mix that the ranch adopted. He refused to stand long enough to clean his feet or to trim them, and boy did he need a trim. Well yeah, the way he looped the rope from the foot to the halter when Wilber faught it he went down on the ground (fighting) stopped and then got back up. Farrier only had to do that to him that one day. And yes, it was about all his feet.

Now, Wilber wears shoes (he's not mine so I wont ask, as he's not ridden either).

Michael our donkey never had anyone mess with his feet until we got him. He was a year of age. It was deffently a different fight than from a horse. Again like with Syrus, I used the rope around his feet, and did not attach it to anything (didn't loop either) just held it in my hand while I picked the foot up. Neither Michael or Syrus give the farrier problems with trimings, shoes, or examinations. Though Syrus still thinks he can get away with foot cleaning, so I use the rope for his back feet, but it just takes the rope being there.

[Clydelover]

She turned three in February. I got her at age one and apparently she had only had her front feet trimmed before. Was a real struggle getting her to hold up her rears. I like the cotton rope idea though. How exactly do you loop the rope on the ankle? Open loop and hold both ends of the rope? Or make a loop at one end and feed the other end thru the loop so it cinches tight around the ankle?

[PonyDriver]

Open loop. You put the rope around the leg and hold both of the end pieces in your hand. You can then drop the "loop" end down to the foot.

I saw Doc Hammill, a great draft horseman from Montana, do this. It's easier on your back and safer while the horse is learning.

PD

[Devo]

Try standing her slightly down hill so the weight is on her fronts. This is what I was suggested for my large QH who has draft in him. I didn't have to do that, but Gosh I think it would be awhole lot safer!!!! Poor girl! And POOR YOU! I would have cried

[DreamRider]

Always open end, just take each end making the rope 1/2 wrap once around ankle, and lift up while giving the horse a cue to pick up the foot. I put my hand as firm as possible on their rear or shoulder (front or back feet) and hold it there for a while. Then let it down, repeat, repeat repeat. Then attempt to clean if the horse gives easy. When they move repeat above. Took Syrus about 2 days to give his rear to me, took Wilber 3 weeks (as he is 19-20 years old and never worked) took Bonito 2 days, and Michael 3 days.

Syrus still calls for rope on his hind leg, don't use it and he will SLAM his foot your picking up down. (sooooo irritating and the final straw for his exowner) He still does it when you ask for his foot without the rope, ok fine, I will use the rope, but once he picks his foot up for me with the rope I can let go of the rope while holding his foot. (kinda funny) He's perfect for the farrier now, he use to be a real butt. Farrier asks me everytime how Syrus is doing while he's trimming him. I tell him, "your doing him now" and he's like "no way, this is Syrus?" It use to take them a good hour to do his feet, now it's like 30 mins with shoes.

[Clydelover]

Update:

The rope thing made it easier to pick up Aleah's feet, but I was never able to get her to hold them up long enough for trimming. I tried it also on two Belgians, and it was a titanic struggle each time. Anyway... this update is about the SHOEING STOCK mainly.

I hadn't messed with the stock since the wreak with Aleah. But one day my friend Fritz called and said he had a trimming job at a place that had its own Shoeing stock, and the owner would secure the horses... four VERY large Percherons.

I went over and took some video clips of how he secured the horses legs. It was the first time I was able to see how it's done correctly. I took several short video clips with my digital camera of how the legs are secured, pulled up, and secured in the stock.

Although a couple of the Perch's struggled quite a bit, they couldn't get loose and there were no wreaks.

Now me and Fritz decided to take this new info and try to do Dolly and Molly at Buckley's using their stock, which is the same except Buckley's stock has a fixed front board, while this Percheron owners stock had a hinged, opening front board.

We got Molly into the stock, and although she struggled mightily... she was held secure and Fritz was able to do all four feet. I had to help him pull each foot up, but it went well.... then we put Dolly in...

After Dollys first front foot was done, before we let it back down... she did almost exactly what Aleah had done the year before. She got both her rear feet over to the right, far enough that it caused her weight to rest on the belly chains, and off the rear feet.... and then sat down. With her loose front foot now stuck way out in front, and her head stuck in a sharp upward angle over the fixed front board... we had to break and wrench off the front board again, so she could breath.... take a hammer to the dogs to release the chains.... unstrapped her other foot.... and she sat there shaking for a minute, before struggling to her feet and out of the stock.

Somehow she whacked her inner rear leg in the process and scrapped her skin pretty bad, causing a "1/2 wide "6 long scrape.

Me and Fritz were both shaken... but Fritz decided that maybe she was shook up enough to trim now with me just holding her lead rope... Impossible before... she now was fairly cooperative and he was able to finish her up.

We won't use that stock again until they put a hinged front board on. Also, I'm trying to figure out a way to keep a horse from sitting down once it's weight comes off it's rear feet during a struggle. I thinking of a wide rubber strap... a couple of feet or so. Once the horse is in the stock... to secure this strap under it's belly, and have it attached from above, so that it's like a belly sling or something.

So do any of you new folk have any Shoeing Stock experiences?

CL

[April]

Reading this post really upset me. I have had my fair share of troubles with my horses and their feet and I am no longer able to trim myself because of my back troubles and my horses won't stand still. I would never consider going this route instead I pay a really nice farrier to come out and trim my guys so that one of us can hold and the other can trim. This works out really well for me and I spare myself any vet bills from trying to restrain my horses.