"Interesting" ad

[justbcos]

I saw this ad today, I thought it looked a bit strange, thought I'd share... Is this a scam, somebody who is inexperienced, or ...?

my saddle is a Circle C its in great Condition rides like new comes with everyhting the cinch the girth the breast collar the saddle blanket all for $2000 Email me for pictures of the horse you will trade me for my saddle ( i do have pictures just ask)

[Appy Trails]

Sounds like a scam to me :rolleyes:

[MeasureMe]

Wouldn't hurt to email a pic of some horse and find out. That ad tweaked my curiousity, but it really does sound kind of strange.

I don't know much about Western saddles, but I have a Circle Y saddle and they are very expensive (I got a deal on it, though:D ) and heavy:eek: !.

[justbcos]

Yeah, the Circle Ys are good, but I don't know anythign about a Circle C... I ought to come up with a picture of some splendid horse and see what happens, LOL.

[Penny]

Sounds sketchy to me.

Com'on.........start the email conversation - we wanna know! LOL!

[jumpinghorses]

I have never heard of Circle C saddles so I did a google search and only found one old used circle C saddle and it wasn't $2,000 worth of impressive. I would email them though and at least mess with them if they are trying to scam someone.

[justbcos]

OK, so if I start messing with them, how should I start - ask them what kind of horse they want? Or ask them for details on the saddle? I don't know how to play this game! LOL!

[Appy Trails]

To really mess with them, you should go out on the Internet and see if you can find a picture of an ugly (if there is such a thing), skinny horse and see what happens if you send that. :p

[Houdini]

Scam written all over that one!
Dishonest people! Argh!
But, you could have some fun with this one. hee hee :D
Make them think this is a for real deal and waste their time. And at the end they get nothing. All that work for nothing. Just what they deserve.

[Penny]

If I was going to play the game - LOL! - I'd start by asking details on the saddle. You want to seem interested in what they have to offer, right? In your email asking details, tell them you have a 9yr old QH gelding or whatever *blah*blah*blah* that you are looking to sell/trade for about $2000 and you might be interested if the tack is good quality.

If they are advertising, they are expecting to get questions. Ask for pics, how often it was used, and why they are selling it.

You certainly aren't hurting anyone by asking questions. Go for it! You might have some fun (and so will we incedentally! LOL!)

[justbcos]

OK, I sent the first email - I'll let you know if/when I get a response :) Here's what I wrote...

I saw your ad for a saddle, where you're willing to trade the saddle for the horse. Can you please send pictures of the saddle?

This sounds like a really great opportunity for me, I need a saddle and stuff so badly. I have several horses that I could trade, please let me know what you're looking for.

[Houdini]

Sounds good. Now let's see if they take the bait! Ha Ha

[Appy Trails]

Ba-Ha-Ha-Ha (as she rubs her hands gleefully :p ) Go get 'em girl!!! Keep us updated. Hum-m-m maybe a couple others of us should get involved too and REALLY make them think that they have some suckers on the line. :D

[Twine]

Hehe! This is great! Be SURE to update us. . (as if you would forget!) :p :D :D

[justbcos]

Wow - that was fast! And lots of pictures. I'm thinking this might not be a scam, just somebody who doesn't know what they're doing, but you know I'm a little too trusting... I'll have to download the pictures and reupload them, that'll take me awhile.

In the meantime, here's what she had to say:

im looking for a young horse that could be a show horse like a barrel racer etc this saddle is a circle C saddle used lightly been using it on this horse my frind new horse but it dont fit him so again im selling it this saddle is around 15/16 inches this saddle is very light and in great condition this saddle will come with a saddle blanket breast collar back, cinch girth the leather halter on one of the pictures is $35 never used been in the barn for 1 year i do have a foal blue halter with blue lead line for sale for $25 never used got it 2 weeks ago some one wanted my saddle and was going to give me a foal they showed me a pic of it and i changed my mine this foal was a colt and i cant have them could i have some pictures of the horses you may trade with me.

[Houdini]

Scammers will sound nice just like real honest people. I question the brand of the saddle. I went online trying to find a circle c and all I found was Circle Y. Hmmmmm.

[justbcos]

OK, since I don't actually have any pictures of "my horses to trade", I'm going to hold off on that for a bit, and try to get more information on this "circle C".

[PaCe2WN]

I'd ask for pics of the saddle...ask if there's a serial number (the Circle Y's have that...if she made a typo or something) and ask for the serial number. It might be an honest but naieve person...chances are it's not.

[justbcos]

I have pictures - just haven't downloaded so that I can attach them here. Didn't ask for serial number.

[vsolubo]

How is the trade going? :D

[justbcos]

Funny you should ask, I had two responses when I checked this morning. The first one I can barely read, the second is much more clear. OK, remember that I asked "What kind of tree is on the saddle", and "Can you tell me about the circle C brand". The first response:

the tree is in ok condition i should have it replace but i dont really used the hole that has a rip in it my mustang ripped it when i put it on him you can still you the ripped hole for a fat horse

And the second email from Miss Avery (this better not be YOU, Pace2Win :D ):

i dont really know anything about circle C saddles it was my moms saddle she rode it 2 time she dont like horses sorry that i cant help you on my circle c saddle

[Appy Trails]

Definitely sounds like a scam. The person doesn't even know what a tree is. :rolleyes:

[OregonLadyGirl]

I think it's a scam...
The last two responses sound like they got confused as to what ad they were responding to. lol
I think the next step for them is to ask for a check to ship the saddle and they will come to pick up your horse... and they will send a cashiers check for well over the amount of the shipping... just send them the change. :)
Big fat scam.

[Penny]

How much you wanna bet that they want to send you a cheque for shipping and..lo-and-behold....its too much money! You must wire the difference back to some bank at the-other-end-of-the-earth. Yup....I'd steer clear of this one!! :p

[justbcos]

Yeah, I'm sure that's coming. So I'm trying to design my trade horses. I'm thinking a 12 year old QH HYPP Y/Y barrel racer, sorrel, 4 stocking legs, and a blaze; the second horse will be a 4 year old bay TB/QH gelding, BROKE to death, well as long as you ear him down to mount him, of course (NO - DON'T YELL AT ME, I wouldn't actually do that to a horse...); a beautiful Paint mare, 7 years old, bred to a homozygous black and white stallion - (what problem should she have?); And a 10 year old Palomino, show points in Western Pleasure and Halter, with a bog spavin.

Whaddaya think?

[Sugarmom]

You crack me up! I can't wait to see the response to that one!

[Penny]

LOL! This is fun - even from the outside of the actual event! LOL!

Maybe your paint mare is broodmare sound only but with fantastic bloodlines?


Hey, I'm interested in your broke-to-death 4 yr old! I'm sure I have something to trade you! LOL!

[LarknMe]

Don't you just *love* playing along? :p

Either it's fake or she meant to type $200 and $2000 was a typo....... :confused:

[Appy Trails]

I bet whoever answers has NO idea about any of the stuff you wrote about the horses :p Can't wait to see what kind of answer you get. :D

[justbcos]

So I responded to the email where she just said she didn't know what a Circle C was (that it was her mother's saddle, etc.)

Here's what I wrote - makes you want to run out and buy one, huh? I'm intentionally vague on the last horse. Just wait until she finds out that the horse is a 32 year old mini. (don't know how you win WP on a Mini, but oh well)

OK. what kind of tree is on it?

I tried to take pictures of the horses last night, but my camera was out of batteries, so hopefully tonight I can get the pictures.

But I can tell you about them, they are all really wonderful.

1) A beautiful 10 year old sorrel QH gelding, Impressive bred with active HYPP Y/Y, 3 white stockings, and a blaze. He's an experienced barrel racer, and is 12.2hh
2) Cam is a bay 4 year old TB/QH, very fast, has a bog spavin and is absolutely BROKE to death, as long as you ear him down while you mount him. He's 17.1 hh
3) Dotty is a Paint mare, 24 years old broodmare sound, bred to a homozygous B/W stallion, she has an aggressive temperament especially with foal.
4) Nugget is a Palomino mare with show points in Western Pleasure and Halter

What do you think you might want?

[Penny]

They probably think "bog spavin" means he's good going over wet ground. ;) *snigger*

[Houdini]

This is so much fun. :D hee hee

[cavalry]

LOL! This is really funny! :D

[PaCe2WN]

And the second email from Miss Avery (this better not be YOU, Pace2Win :D ):


Pfft!!! Come ON!!! I'm not THAT naieve...I mean really...I know that maple trees are the best!!! ;) This is so amusing to follow...and I bet it's even more amusing to be dealing with!!! :D

[Appy Trails]

LOL!!! Can't wait for the next response.

[Twine]

This is just too funny! :p I'm lovin' it! ;) :D :D

[ckbrown]

I did some research as well and found an ad for a Circle C Saddle made by Circle C Saddlery. The ad also posted pictures and from what I saw the saddle looked fairly decent but, you can't always tell the quality from pictures. However, the asking price for the saddle (like new only ridden 4 or 5 times) was $375. I also found this information on the web: CIRCLE C SADDLERY 850 FOX FARM ROAD LARKSPUR , CO 80118 (303) 238-5513. CRYSTAL SPRINGS SADDLERY 1609 COUNTY ROAD 112 CARBONDALE , CO 81623 (970) 963-1022 ...

There is a good possibility that you're dealing with a young, inexperienced person who is simply trying to trade a saddle for a horse (i.e. she has no cash). It would be a shame if the person you're dealing with is a kid and you've gotten her hopes up at the possibility of trading her saddle for a horse only to find out that some "adult" was just playing games. I would certainly clarify how she came up with the $2,000 price tag. She may be completely nieve as to the value of the saddle and tried to compare it with a Circle Y in coming up with the value.

A person asking to trade a saddle for a horse doesn't IMO sound like a scam. Unless or until this person's trade parameters are suspect I would simply look at this as a barter. Just because she doesn't express herself well, and lacks basic saddle knowledge doesn't make her a scammer.

[justbcos]

oh boy Ckbrown, now you've got me feeling like a worm. I was afraid of that after the first email, maybe she wasn't a crook, but then the next emails convinced me that she was, and now you've got me thinking again that maybe she isn't. Well, we'll see what she has to say when she comes back.

Seems like even an inexperienced person would ask where the horse is, though wouldn't they? If they're advertising on a website that is nationwide. Well, actually includes Canada, I think, so NorthAmerican, not a local website.

[Navi]

It will be interesting to find out which you're dealing with...a naive girl or a scammer!! Thanks for keeping us posted. :)

[LarknMe]

Have you been given a location or full name or anything like that?

I find alot of scammers use stupid names.....for example....I've had a "Smith Edward" email for rabbits....the names are either really stupid or in this case backwards, LOL. Watch out for "Smith's"....we get ALOT of them trying to get our animals. :D

Here's a copy of the one from "Smith Edward." :D

"Hello,
I saw your advert over the web and am much
intrested in buying Rabbit. I live here in the
NETHERLAND,I will be responsible for the shippment
down to my location, so please kindly write me back
with your last offering price.I am Looking forward
to your soonest reply
MY REGARDS
SMITH EDWARD"


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[PaCe2WN]

Wow...Smith Edward??? :rolleyes: I tell you what...the Smith family is really into buying stuff, don't you think??? ;)

[denise]

I only read the first two pages, but thought I'd pipe up about the Circle C saddles... They are inexpensive and the B.C's were imposters. We had a vender at our County Fair here in August who had Billy Cook (not from Sulpher Springs, OK) and Circle C saddles. They ran around $350, with the cinches included. I don't remember if they came with the breast collar? They were flashy but when you look closely they were not well made. I would have put them in the same catagory as the Western Star saddles. Nice for inexpensive.
The same vendor had the head stalls, halters in that leather that cracks in a couple months? Not very pliable? Great for a starter who can't afford to fork out the big $ for good stuff.

[denise]

I had to go back and read the rest. LOL WHAT IS BOG SPAVIN???
She does sound very inexperienced, any idea yet where she is? I'm wondering if she is in JR. HIGH? Because Matt has two friends and she could be either one. :rolleyes:

[justbcos]

So to answer your questions, yes, I have a full name - Avery Whyte. So could still be a kid... I'm still not sure.

Avery responded back that she (I assume it's a female) thinks she might like Cam - who I said was a 4 year old bay TB/QH, very fast, with a bog spavin Broke to death if you eared him down, 17.1hh. She wants pictures.

So if Avery's for real, she's very inexperienced, and a horse like this would not be good for her.

So I can hold off for a bit on the pictures, and try to work out the shipping arrangements - that would tell us if it's a scam or not, right? If not a scam, I can let her down gently. If a scam, I'll continue playing. Sound good?

If it's not a scam, I feel REALLY bad for this person, because they're so likely to get ripped off or hurt.

[justbcos]

WHAT IS BOG SPAVIN???
:

I wasn't sure if you were joking or not - so just in case anybody is wondering, here is what a Bog Spavin is, courtesy of Wikipedia:

Bog Spavin is a swelling of the tibiotarsal joint of the horse's hock which, in itself, does not cause lameness. The joint becomes distended by excess synovial fluid bringing about a soft, fluctuant swelling on the front of the joint, as well as the inside and outside.

Bog spavin is a symptom, and does not directly create lameness. Causes include synovitis (inflammation of the lining of the joint capsule), degenerative joint disease, or excessive strain of the joint capsule. In horses younger than the age of three, most cases of bog spavin are caused by a defect in the tibiotarsal joint, while in older, fully-mature horses, it is most likely because of chronic strain of the joint capsule.

Many horses with bog spavin will not be lame. However, bog spavin can be a sign that the horse has joint disease, which is a very significant finding. Usually lameness will occur if the workload of the horse is increased. Bog spavin should not be treated lightly, and it is best if a veterinarian examine the horse to find the cause, even if the horse does not appear lame.

Unlike bone spavin, bog spavin does not show any changes to the bone itself

[denise]

LOL I wasn't kidding, really have never heard of it. It does have a resounding ring of "PICK ME" doesn't it? :D

[vsolubo]

This is fun! :D It might also be a child who is just playing the modern version of calling up a number and asking "is your fridge running?" "well you better go catch it!" game! :p

[justbcos]

Oh - got another email. This time Avery says -

if you still want my saddle i need you to put a $60 deposit on it to hold it if you want to trade with your horse cause i do have other people that want it too

So I've responded, asking how I put the deposit down, and also where she's at, and how we would handle the shipping of the saddle and horse. Please note, they've never responded to what kind of tree is on this saddle (not even an "I don't know").

I'm once again leaning towards "scam". My guess is they want me to send a $60 deposit, and then I never see the saddle or anything again... $60 deposit for a $2000 saddle doesn't seem like much, and if the saddle is supposed to be a trade, why would I be sending cash? Seems like this ought to be based on which horse she wants in lieu of the saddle, not "I'll take a horse from whomever wants the saddle first" - don't you think?

[MeasureMe]

This keeps getting curiorser & curioser. What about a deposit on the horse? Write back and say you will need a $500 deposit on the horse since they need a deposit on the saddle, since there are many people also interested in the horse.:D

Sounds more & more like a scam.

[ckbrown]

Her lastest response now makes me question the legitimacy of this transaction. Ask her where she wants the deposit sent and in what form. This should give you some more insight (i.e. cashier's check sent to a PO Box (don't forget that you can get mail boxes with an address). Now I'm curious...

[justbcos]

OK - in the last episode of "is this a scam" soap opera - I had asked how I would send her the deposit, and where did she live, and how would we handle the the shipping of the saddle and the horse. Her response was:

i really dont know i live in pottstown PA 19464 and you live where

Now, I'm guessing that the "I really dont know" applies to the shipping piece, not the "how do I send you a deposit" question. I really need to stick to one question at a time, as that is all that is ever answered. One of these days I'll learn my lesson.

so I have responded again (but once again, broke my new "one question per email" rule) - and by the way, I looked it up there is a person with this last name in that town, but the first name doesn't match. But it could very well be their kid. So my latest response is very soft, to allow an inexperienced person to drop off the hook without getting their feelings hurt too bad, I hope.

My response:

I'm in Texas. I guess I don't understand why you need a $60 deposit if we're going to do a no-cash trade of saddle for horse? Do you not want Cam anymore? It would be disappointing, but I would understand if you have found another horse you want more. I was thinking that you could just send me the saddle with a check for the shipping of the horse (since shipping the horse will cost more than shipping the saddle), and then I'd ship the horse to you. Does that sound right?

Or maybe you're rather get a horse that's closer to where you live? These Texas horses aren't used to Pennsylvania winters, of course.

Please let me know.

[justbcos]

Ha Ha - with my luck, this is probably some law enforcement person trying to snag a scammer and they're going to come bust me...

[ckbrown]

I would probably send her an "oh by the way" email telling her that you've done some research on the Circle C saddle and that there is one listed on Craigslist in MO that has only been ridden in 3 times and that they are asking $375 for the saddle so; you are curious as to how she came about the value of her saddle. Ask her if she has proof of purchase so; that you can determine if this is a like-for-like value trade.

[joe]

I just found this thread and just have to jump in. :)

Like some of you, I was wondering if this might be a not too intelligent, but othewise legitimate trade offer. The request for deposit killed any glimmer of hope I might have had. I am convinced this is a scam.

Playing with scammers is a fun game, but not without a downside. Be VERY careful. Whether you realize it or not, you could be giving away personal information that will come back to haunt you.

First - are you using an email address that is also used for anything else? If so, very bad idea. Say, for instance, you are using the email address that you have in the registration for this forum. A google search (or other tool) might turn up one of your posts. From there, I simply look at the "members list" and find all posts by you. In one or more of those posts could be your real name, address (or at least location). Multiply this by any other forums you visit. There could also be spyware or a virus imbedded in the emails sent to you by this person (or any picture attachments they may send).

You would be surprised at how much can be found in a standard email. It includes you ISP's name and an IP address that gives a real good idea of your general location. If they can break into your ISPs computer, they can get your complete account info with just the info in a single email.

If you want to play at this, get a "fresh" hotmail address so you can remain anonymous.

Keep in mind that many scam artists are professional criminals. Would you taunt a loanshark or pickpocket? I didn't think so. I once had an online scam artist attacking my company's email server - we were getting 20-30,000 emails a day for "low-cost mortgages." Even though the mails were being bounced through servers in China, Brazil, etc. I was able to track down the guy behind it all. I started sending him nasty, threatening email insisting he stop attacking my servers.

Then it dawned on me. I saw the name, where he lived and realized I was probably threatening a mobster. Did I _really_ want to start trouble with this guy? I found a better way to protect my server and just let it go.

If you still want to play at this, here are some ideas.

First, "change your mind" and politely walk away from the deal. Then, restart as a "different" person from a hotmail or yahoo address set up just for this - do NOT use any real information to create the account.

If you want to send pictures, I suggest sending pitures of a toy horse (like a Barbie Doll horse) that matches the description. You could instead send pictures of a dog or cat - just say "but he is really big and everyone says he eats like a horse.")

NEVER, give your true location. Live in Kentucky? Tell him Oregon. NEVER send anything physical (letter, etc.) Of course it could be said that all this lying brings you down to the same level as them. I don't think it is really worth it - you never feel like you "won" and they could care less - they are just looking for the next sucker.

Be careful. I have heard some horror stories about people that became involved with scammers (not playing with them - just for falling for the scam and then trying to get out). In the end, it really isn't worth it.

[denise]

It's too bad you already told her you lived in TX, you could have claimed to live right up the highway 60 miles, what luck! And asked for her address and you could come over and look in person. :D

First of all anyone who can't afford to buy a horse and has to trade a saddle instead would first of all ask WHERE'S THE HORSE LOCATED! Even a kid would ask that! Anyone would realize you have to have a horse shipped, which is lot's of money, or if it's a kid they'd first have to see if mom and dad would go get the horse for her. So that doesn't seem very important to her? hmmm
I'm wondering if it's a scam or if the person is mentally challenged.

[justbcos]

Hi Joe - thanks for the cautionary advice! I really appreciate it. I did set up a hotmail account specifically for this exchange, and it is registered with a false name. But the state is correct. And in my last email, I again gave the correct state. So that's kindof a big OOPS (I should have at least said Colorado, I know good zipcode combinations there, DUH).

And you're right - kindof what's the point of playing with this guy anyway - I'm not going to discover his real identity and turn him in for justice's sake... Just wasting his time. Is the entertainment worth the risk?

[justbcos]

Well, I got another response from Avery - she hasn't found a horse closer to home (how can that be!!), but just wants the $60 to make sure I really want the saddle. She asked how much it would cost to ship a horse, she really wants Cam if I could just send a picture of "him/her" (I'd already told her it was a Him - if I was really interested in a horse, you can bet I'd know what gender it was)

So I asked where to send it, and in what form. Told her it would cost $800 to ship the horse (in truth I have no idea), and suggested that when she sends me the saddle, that she also sends me $860 (my deposit plus the $800 shipping charge). Of course, that would actually be wrong, because it will cost her to ship the saddle, so if this were a real deal, I wouldn't expect the $60 back, that would cover shipping. Anyway, will be interesting to see the response.

My next email to her will be to say that I found a saddle of that make on Craigslist for $350 so I'm no longer interested...

[denise]

I think you should tell her you sister, or brother has to go to PA for some training or something and pick a town really close to her. Tell her your sister knows more about saddles then you do, and she could come look and leave a deposit if it's in as good a shape as you suspect.
Hey your sister wanted to take a drive around and check out stables and stallions anyway right?

[justbcos]

Twine had asked whatever happened with this story...

The person whom I'd suspected of being a hoaxster said that they couldn't afford to trailer the horse across country, so I just said "well, it looks like we don't have a deal then", and dropped it. I still suspect it was a hoax, he probably wanted me to say that I'd forget the horse, and just send the full amount of money. But one of the posters on this thread kindof scared me off of continuing the chase, so I let it go.

[Twine]

Thanks for telling us how it ended JBC! :D

[cowboys_mom]

JB

I just found this thread today, and I have truely enjoyed reading each post :D How bored I must be sitting here recupperating, with my butt getting bigger each day, reading through all the old posts!!! :eek: But this one was truely funny!

Just made me wonder if this person was into horses (and I really don't think they were) ever found this web site and read all of your communications!!! :D Now that would be really funny! :D

THanks for the laugh!